tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13165628.post115849057329452257..comments2023-10-23T12:47:33.578-07:00Comments on Contemplative Activist: Whose backyard is is anyway?Contemplative Activisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15708953084541297892noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13165628.post-1159212395711150492006-09-25T12:26:00.000-07:002006-09-25T12:26:00.000-07:00Thank you Rich - I really appreciated your thought...Thank you Rich - I really appreciated your thoughts.<BR/><BR/>(And your's too madpriest - even if I don't agree.)<BR/><BR/>CAContemplative Activisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15708953084541297892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13165628.post-1159210791673567892006-09-25T11:59:00.000-07:002006-09-25T11:59:00.000-07:00I agree much more with CA here than with madpriest...I agree much more with CA here than with madpriest.<BR/><BR/>There is a range of opinion about violence and its justification or lack thereof in all three major monotheist religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Within each tradition it may make sense for adherents to quote passages of their respective scriptures to justify or critique specific positions. I have known Christians and Jews to justify defensive war - and even offensive war against "evil" - using passages from the Hebrew and Christian scriptures. Other Christians and Jews have other points of view and can also point to scriptural justifications, but extremely few outside of the Quakers and other such splinter groups (I'm a Quaker, by the way) are committed to actual pacifism. <BR/><BR/>In talking about the traditions of people other than ourselves we're treading on pretty shaky ground if we start quoting their scriptures at them and telling them they are wrong when they claim their religion is peaceful. Celebrate those who find justification for peacefulness in any scripture whatever.<BR/><BR/>Terrorism is not a recent phenomenon and it has not been particularly associated with Islam in most of history. It was prominent in the very secular French Revolution, and it seemed to be pretty big among some 20th century Marxists a few decades ago, although I think Marx himself would have denounced it as adventurism.<BR/><BR/>I think that the best long-run approach to discouraging violence between differing groups is to encourage face-to-face knowledge and interaction of one another. Specific individual acquaintance is far more valuable than abstract knowledge based on a-priori assumptions or readings of each other's scriptures outside their lived context.<BR/>- - Rich Accetta-EvansRich in Brooklynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589780733691616974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13165628.post-1158666788322988052006-09-19T04:53:00.000-07:002006-09-19T04:53:00.000-07:00Good thoughts CA. And essential queries.Good thoughts CA. And essential queries.Peterson Toscanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18189029949905668568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13165628.post-1158492817161157122006-09-17T04:33:00.000-07:002006-09-17T04:33:00.000-07:00I'm sorry C.A. but I think what you say and the wa...I'm sorry C.A. but I think what you say and the way that you say it proves the opposite of the point you are trying to make.<BR/><BR/>You see, you are a real Christian. In fact, Quakers are the most fundamentalist of Christians because they try to live out the words of Christ without changing them to suit situations they find themselves in. This makes you the equivalent, not to the Sufis, peace-loving but despised by many Muslims for their syncretic beliefs, but to the parts of Islam now calling for the death of the Pope because that's what the Koran demands - and it does - without qualification (I know - I've read it).<BR/><BR/>We are Christians, not Jews. The teaching of Christ frees us from the mistaken understandings of God in the O.T. But even such understandings of God are partial. There is stream of theology that runs throughout the O.T. that constantly contradicts the vengeful God paradigm. Also, the O.T. overwhelming calls for the respectful treatment of aliens and it does not call for them to be killed for religious reasons. Even the book of Joshua, with all its nastiness, is about political conquest, not religious conquest.<BR/><BR/>However, my point is not "we are better than them." My point as a "middle of the road moderate Christian" is that, just as we have had to face up to the truth of Christian history (The Crusades, slavery etc.); just as we have had to, like you have done, face up to the evil in our own scriptures; so too must Islam face up to the fact that some of the writings of their prophet and many of his actions later in his life, are contradictory to the peacefulness that they keep saying is the true nature of Islamic people. How they do this in a religion that believes every word of its scripture to be inerrant, I don't know.<BR/><BR/>The substantive difference between Irish terrorism and Islamic terrorism is that nothing in the teaching of Christ gives permission for the Irish terrorists to do what they did, whilst the Koran does give permission for acts of violence in certain circumstances. Irish terrorists were not true Christians. Islamic terrorists are true Muslims.<BR/><BR/>Liberal and radical Christians are not going to help the situation if they continue to avoid speaking about things that are non-PC. As we are used to calling for complete honesty in our own religion, perhaps we are the only ones with the sense of detachment and realism to persuade Islam to be honest about their own religion and history.<BR/><BR/>Like you, I believe what western governments are doing in the Islamic world is very, very wrong, but as a quaker, you know that is not an excuse for killing innocent people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com